tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post8270277214986167576..comments2024-03-27T07:41:27.083-07:00Comments on Great Ming Military: The evolution of shields in China — Part 1: Shang to Han春秋戰國http://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-92211308664267053312021-07-19T22:28:09.374-07:002021-07-19T22:28:09.374-07:00Thanks for your input.
As for Tower shield, it wa...Thanks for your input.<br /><br />As for Tower shield, it was used alongside Double Arc shield though, and it doesn't look like a rush job (the metal boss probably makes it more expensive and harder to make than typical double arc shield).春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-26315344132089109542021-07-18T22:19:26.703-07:002021-07-18T22:19:26.703-07:00I think they are used as "stab thru holes&quo...I think they are used as "stab thru holes" for whatever weapon they had, making it easier to stab without exposing the arm, and the holes make it easier to see past the shield when in direct combat. I also think, that the 4 grooves are potential attacking locations: the lower grooves for low/groin thrusts, the top for upper thrust, and the sloped half for overshield attacks. <br /><br />I think they only brought the rectangular shield during the warring states because it was cheaper, and they were going thru a crisis that probably didn't allow time to create the complex double arc shields. Hence why the rectangular shields disappeared during the Qin dynasty, when the warring states period ended, because they had the time to produce these complex shields. <br /><br />Could also be that some warlord really liked tower shields...billgenevalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11533039309448776508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-87202600997863313662021-01-18T18:16:52.146-08:002021-01-18T18:16:52.146-08:00Umm, sword and spear?Umm, sword and spear?春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-45988728367626203812021-01-18T12:11:40.783-08:002021-01-18T12:11:40.783-08:00What was the most common weapon to use with a shie...What was the most common weapon to use with a shield in china? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-37041520906227965102020-02-26T23:11:46.903-08:002020-02-26T23:11:46.903-08:00I specifically refer to the disc as fake. The more...I specifically refer to the disc as fake. The more discs I see, the more dubious they look to me. <br /><br />A few figurines in there are probably fakes as well, although I can't say with as much onfidencec as with the discs.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-1132969370245898402020-02-26T22:28:10.748-08:002020-02-26T22:28:10.748-08:00Thank you for your opinion.
The reason why I cons...Thank you for your opinion.<br /><br />The reason why I consider this as not fake yet is because of some photo where the jades are displayed in a museum like setting.<br /><br />Here is the rest of the jades<br /><br />http://www.coant.com.cn/contents/7/7059.html<br /><br />https://31562jp.wordpress.com/古蜀文明の謎-三星堆遺跡%E3%80%803/<br /><br />Some of them do really look like modern souvenirs.<br /><br />But I do think that some of them could be authentic.<br />Is it profitable to fake something like this? <br /><br />https://31562jp.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/1504483750618894344.jpg?w=833<br /><br /><br />Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712475354569244974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-69686385069843311762020-02-26T22:09:47.032-08:002020-02-26T22:09:47.032-08:00I am not aware of any news or article specifically...I am not aware of any news or article specifically written to debunk this.<br /><br />However, the carvings on the disc are clearly made with a isometric POV, and there are a few flags and many soldiers depicted as partially "offscreen". I seriously doubt those are common practices back in the day.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-56002837903502493642020-02-26T20:32:37.160-08:002020-02-26T20:32:37.160-08:00Thank you, but do you know an article or news that...Thank you, but do you know an article or news that show that these are fakes?<br /><br />I have my suspicion about those things, however, I have also heard too much claim of fake history whenever a debate when into China's favor.<br /><br />Also there are some Chinese artifact that looks like it was made in the modern era like this Warring States crystal cup.<br /><br />https://i.pinimg.com/originals/28/f6/66/28f6668505375e7522536436014f4fea.jpg<br /><br />Had it been polished before display, would people thought it would be from the Warring States period?Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712475354569244974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-56370864999028612132020-02-26T17:45:00.080-08:002020-02-26T17:45:00.080-08:00Those are clearly fakes.
Those are clearly fakes.<br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-84683001049177729592020-02-26T17:33:18.864-08:002020-02-26T17:33:18.864-08:00Hello, 春秋戰國,
I found a series of pictures of jade...Hello, 春秋戰國,<br /><br />I found a series of pictures of jade carving supposedly from the Shu Kingdom of Sanxingdui.<br /><br />http://www.coant.com.cn/upload/2015/1/7103655375.jpg<br /><br />http://www.coant.com.cn/upload/2015/1/71037816.jpg<br /><br />It show shield with holes for trapping enemy weapons and it also show use of polearms by 1200-1000 BC.<br /><br />I don't know if they are imitation, but I know that jade objects last a long time so they look like newly made.<br /><br />If it is authentic, then the Sanxingdui culture weaponry is very advanced for its time. <br />Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712475354569244974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-11533137759990431942019-11-26T15:08:50.804-08:002019-11-26T15:08:50.804-08:00@Alex Cheng, Mass levies does not indicate poor qu...@Alex Cheng, Mass levies does not indicate poor quality of troops. The Roman army of the early to mid Republic was an entirely massed levied militia, and these armies defeated the armies of powerful states such as Carthage, Macedon, and Seleucid. The Romans defeated their greatest enemies with massed levies - many years before the Marian reforms that transitioned the army into a professional standing army that relied more on volunteers.<br /><br />Furthermore, well trained levied militias and professional troops existed during the Warring States era. Training and equipment were often provided by the state. During the Western Han era, militias were trained for a year and served for 1 or 2 years. That is more than enough training if we consider the Roman troops were trained for 4 months according to De re Militari by Vegetius.Intranetusahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14768805795621122299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-15048616401739707902019-05-31T19:00:50.301-07:002019-05-31T19:00:50.301-07:00I doubt such a name even exists - even "doubl...I doubt such a name even exists - even "double-arc shield" is a modern name. Han people back then probably called it with the generic term for "shield" in Chinese.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-75399335645864269922019-05-31T05:37:54.204-07:002019-05-31T05:37:54.204-07:00Do you know the Native Chinese name of Long shield...Do you know the Native Chinese name of Long shield of Han dynasty? I wonder how it's called.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10421112940085222921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59459860629909222822019-01-07T17:54:09.674-08:002019-01-07T17:54:09.674-08:00I'd love to. You can email the pictures to me....I'd love to. You can email the pictures to me.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59675799796346504722019-01-07T09:51:30.691-08:002019-01-07T09:51:30.691-08:00Thank you! Would you like me to send pictures of ...Thank you! Would you like me to send pictures of my modern recreation for SCA combat when I have my new shield put together? I also plan to do a short write up on how the shield functions. I've been fighting with one of correct profile, but only serviceable grip, for awhile, and the bumps created by the arcs play well to its defensive capabilities.Riggs Bros.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06974898411303508791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-33474820989263931082019-01-02T21:35:23.590-08:002019-01-02T21:35:23.590-08:00It is apparent that the "mass levy" idea...It is apparent that the "mass levy" idea really didn't apply to dynasties like the Ming and the Qing, but given that the warring states fielded armies so large that it would make their western contemporaries blush, it would be hard to imagine all those tens of thousands to be trained to a certain level. As for shields, it seems surprising that such a small shield was in use when the Chinese's enemies, each other and the Xiongnu, were all heavily missile basedAlex Chenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268075448376874233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-22413796190809648822019-01-01T01:46:49.305-08:002019-01-01T01:46:49.305-08:00Double arc shield was developed during Eastern Zho...Double arc shield was developed during Eastern Zhou (Spring & Autumn + Warring States), an era of frequent warfare. I will be very surprised if martial arts wasn't widespread back then. Also, I don't really buy the "mass poorly trained levy" idea on ANY Chinese dynasties.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-69417965396705568992018-12-31T01:06:14.620-08:002018-12-31T01:06:14.620-08:00Just a feeling that levies didn't have access ...Just a feeling that levies didn't have access to the time and funding to properly train them, so a simple, protective shield would've done more good. And I'm not entirely certain if martial arts were super widespread throughout the populace, at least in Han dynasty times.<br />I read somewhere that most infantry in that time were either levied spearmen who didn't carry shields, or trained crossbowmen. I have no idea how accurate that is though.Alex Chenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268075448376874233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-43563649208607422992018-12-30T06:44:13.572-08:002018-12-30T06:44:13.572-08:00I don't see recruitment method having that muc...I don't see recruitment method having that much effect on the fighting style of the recruits - rattan shield for example is just as dynamic, but the arts was pretty common among the common people. If those people were levied, they bought the skills with them into the army.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-13374584102174279532018-12-29T07:45:08.898-08:002018-12-29T07:45:08.898-08:00I can't really see the usefulness of the doubl...I can't really see the usefulness of the double arc shield compared to other designs. It provides neither protection from missiles nor coverage enough for a passive defensive stance. Successful use would've required a dynamic fighting style which doesn't fit the massive levy armies of the time.Alex Chenghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268075448376874233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-61137561200081963142018-11-10T05:42:04.099-08:002018-11-10T05:42:04.099-08:00https://imgur.com/a/HMFjpjwhttps://imgur.com/a/HMFjpjw春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-44197955963230453082018-11-10T04:21:38.737-08:002018-11-10T04:21:38.737-08:00I will see what I can find for you. Stay tuned.I will see what I can find for you. Stay tuned.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-40965892082695425962018-11-09T21:45:59.974-08:002018-11-09T21:45:59.974-08:00I would be really interested to see more pictures ...I would be really interested to see more pictures of the grip on the double arc shield. I'm trying to recreate one, using modern materials. I've been using one in SCA combat with the correct double arc profile, and it does play interestingly when deflecting attacks from swords. My trouble is mounting the grip correctly, to get the balance correct. At the moment the grip I use just protrudes from the back, it isn't recessed as it seems to be on the extant version.Riggs Bros.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06974898411303508791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-23995181451186219632018-11-09T21:43:54.258-08:002018-11-09T21:43:54.258-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Riggs Bros.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06974898411303508791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-60130093047357438022018-06-04T20:44:09.812-07:002018-06-04T20:44:09.812-07:00A small trivia: The large pavises as depicted in t...A small trivia: The large pavises as depicted in the movie "Red Cliff" are based on the kneeling Wu Kingdom figurine pictured in my blog post. Actual shield was nowehere near as large as the movie depiction and most definitely didn't glow in golden colour though.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.com