tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post6256651813220936719..comments2024-03-27T07:41:27.083-07:00Comments on Great Ming Military: Cotton and brigandine armours of the Ming Dynasty春秋戰國http://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-31477200360856917422024-02-27T21:39:18.713-08:002024-02-27T21:39:18.713-08:00The right side is usually (but not always, some br...The right side is usually (but not always, some brigandines still have it) left vacant because Qing warrior usually wears the arrow quiver there.<br /><br />It's also to make mounting a horse easier.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-53849455163542744202024-02-27T10:34:50.880-08:002024-02-27T10:34:50.880-08:00Question: why does the Qing dynasty brigandine sho...Question: why does the Qing dynasty brigandine shown in the drawings have cover plates over the groin and left hip but none on the right size? What is the practical reasoning for that?Arthozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11627075207211408261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-17012113638833064332022-02-16T18:03:51.427-08:002022-02-16T18:03:51.427-08:00I've heard about this theory of late Mikhail G...I've heard about this theory of late Mikhail Gorelik for some time, but unable to verify it because I can't read Russian. <br /><br />There might be studies and historical/archaeological sources in Russian that support his view but I don't understand/don't have access to. AFAIK from the Chinese side, evidence from Tang Dynasty is flimsy at best. There's one mention of "布背甲" that MIGHT refer to some kind of armour with fabric on the outside, and that's about it (as far as I can recall).春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-67633224787046280602022-02-16T15:43:08.732-08:002022-02-16T15:43:08.732-08:00I was curious about your opinion or knowledge abou...I was curious about your opinion or knowledge about something. While researching about brigandine I encounter the most interesting thing to me on wikipedia of all places. The wikipedia page has a line that reads "Russian orientalist and weapon expert Mikhail Gorelik states that it was invented in the 8th century as parade armour for the Emperor's guards by reinforcing a thick cloth robe with overlapping iron plates, but did not come into wide use until the 13th century, when it became widespread in the Mongol Empire under the name of hatangu degel ("robe which is as strong as iron"). He also argues that Eastern European kuyaks and, supposedly, Western European brigandines originate from this armour.[10]"<br />Prior to reading this iteration of the "Brigandine" article on wikipedia, I had never heard of this assertion before. Do you know anything of this? ...especially that whole tang parade armour bit.<br />I tried looking deeper into the book this was referenced from but its all in russian and I can't read it :(Fyrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09279273792290954077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-2146652378405909172021-09-14T18:34:42.196-07:002021-09-14T18:34:42.196-07:00This is fascinating stuff! Would you be able to th...This is fascinating stuff! Would you be able to theorise why the latter wore undyed colours while the former mostly wore blue even if red was very common? I'd just welcome any information you have because it's so, so difficult to find English sources on any of this. Would it even merit a larger blog post from you, I'm hoping? OwenChpwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13617158836227071875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-82380567878278266052021-09-12T20:41:41.939-07:002021-09-12T20:41:41.939-07:00Well parade guards on《出警入跸圖》wear predominantly blu...Well parade guards on《出警入跸圖》wear predominantly blue, while guards on 《徐顯卿宦跡圖》wear undyed brigandine (cotton fabrics are naturally yellow if undyed, i.e. what would be known as "nankeen").春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-36032768514979483922021-09-12T06:11:35.370-07:002021-09-12T06:11:35.370-07:00Oh, thanks for the clarification. I read on some f...Oh, thanks for the clarification. I read on some forums that the Beijing army used yellow brigadine, but I suppose they weren't restricted to just yellow. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18307763552640848329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-57888711416703777622021-09-11T22:52:00.340-07:002021-09-11T22:52:00.340-07:00No standard colour. You can find different colour...No standard colour. You can find different colours in different units of the same army. <br />Red does seem to be quite common though.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-86069131105666139922021-09-11T06:11:06.877-07:002021-09-11T06:11:06.877-07:00One question I have is, what colours were brigadin...One question I have is, what colours were brigadine? So in Korean dramas depicting the Imjin War they seem to be yellow, was that a particular Ming army? In all other art they mostly seem to be blue or red?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18307763552640848329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-31560931587801845272020-07-18T00:05:48.051-07:002020-07-18T00:05:48.051-07:00Qing dynasty cloth armor is just earlier brigandin...Qing dynasty cloth armor is just earlier brigandine without the metal plates. and back when the brigandine had metal plates, the studs are rivets to fasten those plates to the cloth. Qing ditched the metal plates but kept the studs purely for aesthetic purposesYeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02711901606199313822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-15153673912935386162020-07-18T00:00:51.301-07:002020-07-18T00:00:51.301-07:00they're rivets, to secure the metal plates in ...they're rivets, to secure the metal plates in an actual brigandine<br /><br />later Qing versions did not have the metal plates but still wanted to simulate the look so the studs were kept for aesthetic purposesYeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02711901606199313822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-68230356088080175342019-07-09T19:18:11.471-07:002019-07-09T19:18:11.471-07:00@kiatkiat
Here's a photo that I slightly edite...@kiatkiat<br />Here's a photo that I slightly edited to highlight the lapel of the armour. As you can see, armour plates actually extend slightly beyond the edge of the lapel and will be covered by lapel from the other side.<br /><br />https://i.imgur.com/Ccu4tYE.jpg春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-11153788568970545362019-07-08T07:24:51.626-07:002019-07-08T07:24:51.626-07:00Hmm, that's hard to explain to you. I think it...Hmm, that's hard to explain to you. I think it's better for me to find a picture of a brigandine and show it to you. Stay tuned.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-19089653879878518992019-07-07T20:49:19.399-07:002019-07-07T20:49:19.399-07:00Its a nice blog. Have a question on the parallel l...Its a nice blog. Have a question on the parallel lapel of this type of armor. By right lapels should be overlapped for better protection at the body centerline. But drawings seen like there no overlapping. Is there any overlapping or they wearing an underarmour?kiatkiathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17313375482523155861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-21859108087877057372018-11-09T18:01:11.878-08:002018-11-09T18:01:11.878-08:00你好。
一般而言锁子甲以外的铁甲都很难穿在普通衣服底下。理论上,可以把布面甲的甲片缩小然后做成可以...你好。<br /><br />一般而言锁子甲以外的铁甲都很难穿在普通衣服底下。理论上,可以把布面甲的甲片缩小然后做成可以穿在普通衣服内的盔甲(日本就有类似的),但明清布面甲的甲片都很大,应该是没人那么做。<br /><br />纸布皮甲要有防御力的话就需要做厚,厚了很臃肿了,藏不住的。春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-67091447862380059372018-11-09T05:45:05.295-08:002018-11-09T05:45:05.295-08:00嗨,
我有一个关于明朝盔甲的问题,据我所知,中国任何朝代应该都是严格禁止民间盔甲流通。
但不知道...嗨,<br /><br />我有一个关于明朝盔甲的问题,据我所知,中国任何朝代应该都是严格禁止民间盔甲流通。<br /><br />但不知道诸如布面甲,纸甲一类,是不是可以如同现在的防弹衣一样,没有传统的钢铁甲那样引人注目,可以穿在身上不至于引人发觉呢?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01816041967627931937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59233838357401351742018-09-20T21:21:21.803-07:002018-09-20T21:21:21.803-07:00Sorry. The use of brigandine could be even earlier...Sorry. The use of brigandine could be even earlier, as early as late 14th century.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-80393446311348699202018-09-20T18:52:26.304-07:002018-09-20T18:52:26.304-07:00Brigandine started to be used in the early 15th ce...Brigandine started to be used in the early 15th century (1420s, give or take). I personally classify early Ming as 14th century to first half of 15th century, mid Ming as second half of 15th century to 16th century, and late Ming as anything after 16th century.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-73569797137007263752018-09-20T14:06:43.737-07:002018-09-20T14:06:43.737-07:00Hi again, i was wondering at what century did this...Hi again, i was wondering at what century did this armor catched on and started being used, i have trouble with the term early,middle,and late ming, and so its difficult to distinguish "medieval" armor from "renaissance" ones for me.The GhostHerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10301763913750538639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-43497693551220318842018-09-13T19:01:54.512-07:002018-09-13T19:01:54.512-07:00I'm not sure. That's probably to make the ...I'm not sure. That's probably to make the plates more secure, but this is just my guess.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-11308133945435276232018-09-13T18:59:13.467-07:002018-09-13T18:59:13.467-07:00It's just that they seldom wore the brigandine...It's just that they seldom wore the brigandine with a belt.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-29332886324746914412018-09-13T03:38:56.571-07:002018-09-13T03:38:56.571-07:00Another unrelated question
I have a impression th...Another unrelated question<br /><br />I have a impression that qing period brigandines are relatively bulkier than ming period one <br /><br />If that is a true is it relate with size of plates? Or just fashion preferencessdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-61683116516671058002018-09-13T03:33:31.313-07:002018-09-13T03:33:31.313-07:00https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/454159943647862280...https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/454159943647862280/<br /><br />https://i.pinimg.com/originals/42/cb/6a/42cb6ae7ce13516afbd1ec52c58a12e1.jpg<br /><br />https://www.pinterest.co.kr/pin/ARtKRAeJ9_nM7PNOsjzqhjuAFOrygKh9PWP-VVr6LNhaigO4Z2X5Dhs/<br /><br /><br />You can find some fabric line that partially cover the downside of plates row which is located on the front of cloth and are fixed with rivets <br /><br />ssdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-39002478150529506612018-09-12T18:41:34.771-07:002018-09-12T18:41:34.771-07:00I am still not quite getting it, can you show me a...I am still not quite getting it, can you show me a picture?春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-66369881606248626902018-09-12T08:08:36.326-07:002018-09-12T08:08:36.326-07:00There is a either leather or fabric line that hold...There is a either leather or fabric line that hold row of plates (on down side) not sure what does it dossdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.com