tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post3435913422403829792..comments2024-03-27T07:41:27.083-07:00Comments on Great Ming Military: The ghost-faced warrior monks of the Shaolin Monastery春秋戰國http://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-73532098531492267102021-10-18T03:03:36.160-07:002021-10-18T03:03:36.160-07:00On second thought, as far as connection to Souther...On second thought, as far as connection to Southern Chinese martial arts (and the "Five Elders" etc.) is concerned, claims of all three Southern Shaolin claimants are all rather weak.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-70428727730864849662021-10-07T19:06:18.212-07:002021-10-07T19:06:18.212-07:00Tactics, (Long snake formation), as well as some o...Tactics, (Long snake formation), as well as some of their weapons including iron staves, come from 《江南經略》, specifically the 《僧兵首捷記》chapter. Iron staff is also referenced in other sources such as 《武備志》.<br /><br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59229587731641690222021-10-07T18:35:17.231-07:002021-10-07T18:35:17.231-07:00about their weaponary (especially iron staves) and...about their weaponary (especially iron staves) and tacticsssdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-9052836739515305862021-10-07T17:55:33.522-07:002021-10-07T17:55:33.522-07:00Hmm? source about what specifically?Hmm? source about what specifically?春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-22117287328151112292021-10-07T16:12:20.761-07:002021-10-07T16:12:20.761-07:00may i ask a source? may i ask a source? ssdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-19858191498228599162021-10-05T19:15:03.657-07:002021-10-05T19:15:03.657-07:00少林棍法闡宗 was written around the time of Ming-Qing tr...少林棍法闡宗 was written around the time of Ming-Qing transition, but I doubt its techniques were invented during that time. The book was probably meant to be a reorganisation/codification/evolution/expansion of existing techniques. Some of the subsystems found in the book, like 大夜叉,小夜叉 etc, were already mentioned in earlier sources.<br /><br />We know Yu Dayou visited Shaolin Temple in 1561. Monk soldiers were most active around 1553~1555, so that was before they received teachings from Yu Dayou.<br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-89101692715696248452021-10-05T03:11:45.774-07:002021-10-05T03:11:45.774-07:00What staff technique monks used during this partic...What staff technique monks used during this particular period? I heard 少林棍法闡宗 is later technique and very thrust centric but judging by description here when they fight against monks they prefer cudgeling so maybe it was similar to jian jing?ssdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247615417039147679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59099268911574823792019-05-15T19:35:07.689-07:002019-05-15T19:35:07.689-07:00Presumably the modern Shoalin staff was the "...Presumably the modern Shoalin staff was the "upgraded" version from Yu Dayou, but honestly I don't see much similarities (there are several different version of Shaolin staff too, maybe one of them is the Yu Dayou version, but honestly I have no idea). OTOH, almost all Southern martial arts that involve staff techniques are probably influenced by Yu Dayou in one way or another.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-10215183080491146692019-05-15T18:53:42.568-07:002019-05-15T18:53:42.568-07:00Hi, thanks for the reply.
Since you mention 2 mon...Hi, thanks for the reply.<br /><br />Since you mention 2 monks train under Yu Da You, I wonder if the Shaolin quarterstaff have any influence from Yu's quarterstaff?Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09348659624526149733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-26369880516225360822019-05-13T19:05:15.012-07:002019-05-13T19:05:15.012-07:00I don't recall Qi Ji Guang opined anything abo...I don't recall Qi Ji Guang opined anything about Shaolin martial arts (except one passing mention of Shaolin staff).<br /><br />As for Yu Da You, he went to Shaolin Temple with the intention of experiencing Shaolin martial arts, but was disappointed at what he saw. The temple then sent two monks to study from him. After three years those two monks bought what they learned back to the Temple.<br /><br />Yu Da You's comment was something like this (paraphrasing): "This temple is renowned for its staff, but the art had been passed down for so long that it lost its essense".春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-49209975128994980182019-05-13T08:13:18.027-07:002019-05-13T08:13:18.027-07:00Hello, I would like to ask you a question.
I read...Hello, I would like to ask you a question.<br /><br />I read somewhere that said Qi Ji Guang and Yu Da You think that most Shaolin martial art (like 99.9%) is useless.<br /><br />Did they actually said that? If yes, do you think what they said is true?<br /><br />Thanks in advance.Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09348659624526149733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-47063882507869831342018-09-19T18:34:22.455-07:002018-09-19T18:34:22.455-07:00I just lurk For Honor-related discussions often. I...I just lurk For Honor-related discussions often. I am not a native English speaker too (mother tongue in Chinese), btw.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-19228344480732295222018-09-19T14:11:54.331-07:002018-09-19T14:11:54.331-07:00First of all, thank you on the shaolin part. Sorry...First of all, thank you on the shaolin part. Sorry for not replying earlier, I just started college and don't have a lot of of time for myself. I'm glade you are liking my ideas and artwork, may I ask how you saw them? Also on a side note, thanks for the correction, it's difficult for me as not a native English speaker speaker to get all things right. You seems to know a lot about South East Asia too. The GhostHerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10301763913750538639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-59486158034429220492018-09-14T11:26:34.048-07:002018-09-14T11:26:34.048-07:00On a unrelated note:
The Pahlawan faction idea i...On a unrelated note: <br /><br />The Pahlawan faction idea is pretty nice. <br /><br />Personally I'd want a Malay guy in there too, and the Cambodian dude probably want the Mak used by the Vietnamese guy. The Thai can have the mae sun sawk, while maybe a Burmese guy can use the double dha.<br /><br />“Soldier” in Nias language (the "Indonesian" guy)is something like "Saradadu", if English-Nias online dictionary is to be trusted. Pendekar is a Malay word.<br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-18701975879687235952018-09-14T10:55:08.713-07:002018-09-14T10:55:08.713-07:00I've seen some of your artworks for FOR HONOR,...I've seen some of your artworks for FOR HONOR, and will be very hyped to see your take on Shaolin monk.<br /><br />Do you know that ancient Chinese coin has a hole in the centre? The monks simply slotted the quarterstaff through multiple old coins. The text doesn't mention how many coins were slotted (presumably iron quarterstaff is thinner than wooden staff, and there are some rather large coin back then) but it's logical to assume that both ends of the staff were reinforced this way.<br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-9142771656309598632018-09-14T09:40:14.057-07:002018-09-14T09:40:14.057-07:00Hi, I wanted to know what did you meant by renforc...Hi, I wanted to know what did you meant by renforced with copper coins? Like the currency or some kind of metal cap ? Was it on both end? I'm asking this because I'm currently trying to draw a accurate version of a shaolin warrior The GhostHerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10301763913750538639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-91303191750521246272018-08-27T01:12:01.893-07:002018-08-27T01:12:01.893-07:00I think that's very unlikely as well. There...I think that's very unlikely as well. There's little evidence of Indian influence on Chinese martial arts/weapon design, unlike say Mongolian wrestling or Japanese katana, or European sabre during Qing/Republican period etc.<br /><br />Also, I personally think that Chinese and Indian weapons are too radically different from each other to the point that martial arts do not transmit well between them. For example, one can use a katana as a stand-in for Chinese sword and do a Taiji sabre routine with it (in fact, the founder of Yang Taichi style did just that), but I can't even imagine doing the same with a Tulwar.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-9801265564588128452018-08-27T00:02:36.688-07:002018-08-27T00:02:36.688-07:00I use a very poor choice of words, what I meant in...I use a very poor choice of words, what I meant in my first comment was there any transferred of Martial techniques by a series of exchanges that inspired the legend.Eagle 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/11457279636458279276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-63549083315206660332018-08-26T23:33:46.650-07:002018-08-26T23:33:46.650-07:00Extremely unlikely. For starters, we don't eve...Extremely unlikely. For starters, we don't even sure if he ever went to Shaolin Temple (some records suggest that he died before Shaolin temple was founded...) and even if he did, there's no record of him passing down any martial arts. 春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-58387295189713425422018-08-26T20:49:24.224-07:002018-08-26T20:49:24.224-07:00is there any truth behind the legend of Bodhidharm...is there any truth behind the legend of Bodhidharma by that I mean was there an exchange of Martial techniques from India.Eagle 1https://www.blogger.com/profile/11457279636458279276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-29506255266439285472016-09-04T18:21:09.592-07:002016-09-04T18:21:09.592-07:00The Tianjin one is at least relatively well-docume...The Tianjin one is at least relatively well-documented in the Hena Shaolin records.<br /><br />Fuqing Shaolin is also mentioned in Meir's book, at least in the appendix section. Out of all Southern Shaolin claimnants, Fuqing is the only one to have textual supports (from Song and Ming texts), a confirmed name of "Shaolin", and a ruin large enough to be considered an organised monastery (instead of some random temple in the middle of nowhere that happened to share the same name). Nevertheles, more evidences are required to establish its connection to the Henan Shaolin, or, at the very least, to proof that it had its own branch of martial arts and warrior monks. 春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-3934721126424058472016-09-04T12:14:09.677-07:002016-09-04T12:14:09.677-07:00I'm not sure if one should take anything from ...I'm not sure if one should take anything from the modern "official" Shaolin establishment with other than a grain of salt. We have to remember that the Shaolin temple has suffered calamity after calamity even in the modern period. After the Cultural Revolution, even Jet Li mentioned when filming his 1980's movie Shaolin temple, the temple grounds was nearly abandoned and there were just a few old monks living there (no martial arts practiced IIRC). Then after the Kung Fu movie boom, suddenly there's thousands of monks today?? That's literally building up from the ashes, how much of it now is "true Shaolin" is debatable.<br /><br />Regarding the southern Shaolin temple, Meir Shahar mentions a Changlin temple in Fukien in passing. But its significance and relations with Shaolin is unclear. Fuqing not sure if it was mentioned in the book, i'll have to reread thru.<br /><br />Is there any websites with more info on the Fuqing ruins? I also hear Putian, and Quanzhou are locations as well. I think the problem is that a lot of people from these various places that have actual temple ruins, they'll somehow find a way to link to somewhere/something famous to get in on the tourist attraction. If they have some definitive evidence then that's truly interesting.Rayrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10437102784110461680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-78192820963856267592016-09-03T19:34:36.952-07:002016-09-03T19:34:36.952-07:00By the way, there's also a "Northern Shao...By the way, there's also a "Northern Shaolin" at Tianjin, that is officially recognised by Songshan Shaolin.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-44775212415814635712016-09-03T19:17:55.585-07:002016-09-03T19:17:55.585-07:00Meir Shahar's book was published in 2008, so h...Meir Shahar's book was published in 2008, so he should be able to inspect the evidence of Southern Shaolin already. How or why he decided to dismiss these evidences as myth is anyone's guess.<br /><br />While it is sad that "Southern Shaolin" hype had already turn into a tourist attraction arm race between multiple claimants, the existence of Ming and even Song period textual records and findings at temple ruins shouldn't be dismissed out of hand either.春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1776482547357658591.post-34010102690923578572016-09-03T19:01:08.742-07:002016-09-03T19:01:08.742-07:00I will not be too quick to come to that conclusion...I will not be too quick to come to that conclusion, since there are many finds and ruins that point to the existence of Southern Shaolin, particular the one at Fuqing. Whether they really did participate in anti-Qing activities or not is another story though.<br />春秋戰國https://www.blogger.com/profile/14961602507085597255noreply@blogger.com